Ministry in the Postmodern Matrix

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Comment by Stanley N. Helton on March 11, 2009 at 9:31pm

Hey, James, I see you noted this already.

Comment by Stanley N. Helton on March 11, 2009 at 6:38pm

Also you all need to see:

http://www.americanreligionsurvey-aris.org/

if you have not.

Comment by Stanley N. Helton on March 11, 2009 at 5:41pm

Folks, I'm glad you enjoyed the article. I was not necessarily endorsing it, but thought it was provocative enough to create some discussion. In Canada, I can say that he is more on than off referring to the demise of Evangelicalism. I found him too optimistic regarding what might come from the ashes.

Comment by Lynn S. Nored on March 11, 2009 at 5:01pm

Indeed, the selling off of property is exactly where the seed money to found Genesis Alliance came from.

Comment by James Nored on March 11, 2009 at 4:56pm

As to the discussion on traditional churches, these will exists for a long time, albeit in twindling number. Despite their increasing ineffectiveness in reaching the current generation, many will cling to them out of habit, apathy, or because they are personally nurturing to them (even if they are ineffective in evangelism). Drawing on my biology background, simply because a new form evolves, this does not mean the original form dies out. As long as there is a "niche" that it fills, the original will continue.

It may be that traditional churches will fulfill their missional role mostly by planting new churches. Those that die may sell off their property to fund these efforts.

Comment by James Nored on March 11, 2009 at 4:49pm

Thanks, David, for your thoughts about New Zealand. While there has been a recent increase in atheism in the US, it it still an extremely small minority. The US was founded by religious pilgrims, who got down on their knees and thanked God when they arrived. In contrast, Alan Hirsch shared with us that when Australia was founded, these ex-cons burnt the ships and they all had an orgy.

I do not know New Zealand's story, but how a country is begun and the spirit in which it is begun does have a profound affect upon that country. I do not believe that the US will become highly secular, at least not in a European sense of scepticism towards and disinterest in non-material things. It will continue to be a "spiritual" society, even as it lives out materialism. The shift that will continue is the shift from "organized religion" to individual spirituality.

Comment by Lynn S. Nored on March 11, 2009 at 3:45pm

Hello David,
Good to hear from you. Please post want you can from the conference ""Towards a Kiwi-Made Preaching." It will be very interesting to hear what is said.

Comment by David Nelson on March 11, 2009 at 3:21pm

I also thought the article was interesting and sobering. It certainly contains much to think about. With the seismic changes taking place in our society and world, it is inevitable that it will affect the Church for good and bad - it always has. Being an observer of society and perceptively diagnosing its trends is one thing but predicting how to respond appropriately to it is another. I agree with Lynn that the way we have "done church" in the past will not impact society (generally) in the future but there will probably not be only one way "to do" church in the fture that should replace the way we have done church in the past. The church will probably need to be prepared "to do" church a number of ways because of the realities of our very postmodern and post-Christian societies.

On another note...we in New Zealand are much further down the post-Christian track than you in the U.S. I don't know the stats for New Zealander's but the numbers would be much lower for those who claim to have a Christian worldview. New Zealand society is much more agnostic and secular than U.S. society as a whole. The Evangelical movement here is smaller but robust. I am excited to be attending a seminar next month entitle "Towards a Kiwi-Made Preaching." The focus will address some of these same issues. How do Christians make an impact in New Zealand society?

Thanks for the interesting comments.

Comment by Lynn S. Nored on March 11, 2009 at 2:56pm

Stanley,
A very interesting article in light of a) the recent survey on the rise of atheism and b) the survey by Barna that onlly 9% of adults have a Christian worldview. I do believe he is correct on the increasing antagonism of the political class to Christianiy. Christians will increasingly be pushed to the margins. However, I don't know ( and don't believe he does) whether the push to "missional" congregations will fail as dramatically as he indicates. Certanily, traditional modern methodologies of "doing church" will lead to a "die-out" of those adhering to those principals.

Comment by Gailyn Van Rheenen on March 11, 2009 at 2:44pm

Thanks, Stan for this article. It was enjoyable reading. I tend to agree with Paul concerning the adaptability of Evangelicalism. The author hypothetically projects into the future by intuiting the trends. I respect his creativity.

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